Hence my "aiming" when close. Something like that. i recently bought a 500 with a 18" barrel at a gun auction for $125 in fantastic shape. 12 Gauge vs. .308 vs. .30-06 New Topic Reply to Topic Printer Friendly: Previous Page: Author: Topic : Page: of 2: Jim Higginbotham Moderator. What types of patterns do you get with that load at what ranges and what range did you shoot the deer at? Say over penetration isn't a concern. Many other weapons, military and civilian alike, Keep in mind that no handgun has the stopping power of a high power rifle or a 12 gauge slug gun and a handgun cannot provide the same level of security. As we get started diving into the 12 gauge vs. 16 gauge debate, lets take a quick moment to make sure we understand shotgun gauges. Since the mid-seventies, I have carried a .30-06 and killed several. Some more serious ballistic science..Thanks for watchingPlease like .. Share , comment , SUBSCRIBE!!! the 12ga pump is the most versatile weapon you can buy. of recoil energy, while an 8-pound 12 gauge loaded with 1-ounce slugs produces 16.7 ft.-lbs. I hope this dosnt start the 870 vs 500 debate. The fact is that Iowa laws will NEVER allow for traditional rifle cartridges like .30-06. Was it the Winchester XX copper plated 00 12 pellet buck load? I hate the saftey on my maverick but it is useable (I don't use it though). IMO they are very comparable and the 500 is slighty less expensive. And what is a superior stopper at close range, buck or slugs? A family I know fishes commercially on a river on the remotest part of Kodiak Sellier & Bellot 30-06 180 Gr SP VS Sellier & Bellot 300 win mag 180 Gr SPCE The .300 Win Mag (Left) compared to the .30-06 (Right), both are powerful options for bringing down game. Did not get to a trauma center for 24 hrs-gotta get ready for Church. Ride hard you can rest when you die Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside thoroughly used up totally worn out and loudly proclaiming man what a ride! I've shot single shot .410 shotguns that kick as much as it does, and .243s that kick more. came with long barrel and chokes. Perhaps starting with the rule book in your area is the best beginning point. A hot .270 Win. (lesser the better given our budget) Your typical 1.25-oz or .30-'06 Sprg. If my aim is off a bitso what, my shot will cover an area. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, well after i get my 223 remington 700 sps im gonna trade in my shotgun to get a 30-30, Check ammo prices 12ga 00 buck is getting to be $1 per round or more. Starting Member, VictorLouis For comparison, the SD of a.30 caliber, 180 grain rifle bullet is.271. Come join the discussion about collections, gear, DIY projects, hobbies, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Rifles and shotguns are two different inventions for different circumstances. rifle in .270 generates 16.5 ft-lbs of recoil with a 130-grain load at 3,140 fps. Neither the Ball nor the Green Tip in 5.56 were able to penetrate the steel plate. you might find one of these in a pawn shop for under $150. (ammo) available. A 12 gauge 3" magnum waterfowl load or a 1 oz slug recoils about as much as an average 30-06 hunting rifle. If you are as poor as you say you are then do what I did, Get a Maverick 88. You didn't have to be precise to get some lead into the perp, that's why it was most often found next but you can do it all accept maybe kill a grizzly bear. So Im not going to sit on stand with 12 ga slugs wishing I had a rifle when I can build and afford a good, reliable, accurate rifle like my Bushy that far outperforms any shotgun option. 45/70 but the 12 gauge is much more versatile. However because of the lighter weight and the stock design of the 30-30 it appears to kick more. I had a partner who took 3 torso hits with .50 bmg and survived. I for one wouldn't trust myself to be clear-headed and coordinated when I'm ambushed in the middle of the night, half-asleep, half-naked, fumbling for a box of ammunition while potentially being shot at or attacked or otherwise just bursting with adrenaline. All rifles produce more recoil as the weight of the rifle is reduced and as the weight of the bullets they shoot is increased. its a great gun i love it. 12-gauge shotgun 30 caliber rifle (30-30 or 308 or 30-06) 22 rimfire (be it short, long, long rifle or magnum) The 12-gauge with buck shots was hard to argue with. The 20 gauge offers about three-quarters of the wound potential of the 12-gauge shotgun. Mossberg 500 it is the most bang for your buck (pardon the pun) Solid and reliable. He hunted pheasants with me all the time using a 12 gauge shotgun but the 30-06 was way too much recoil for him. Search the Lodge. All .410 bore models came with a fixed Full choke. (and hunting if needed). If you have the time I would probably borrow the 30.30 Centerfire models came with 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun barrels, with a 3" chamber length. A 30-06 will kick like a 12 gauge using 2 3/4th standard loads, but more This one gun will allow you to shoot ducks, squirrels, rabbits, turkeys, quail, and of course, deer. load, for instance, has nearly double the energy of our example shotgun configuration. Too many people think of the shotgun as a mythological alley sweeper and have no clue about how tight the pattern is close and how much or how fast it opens up, for any shotgun or any given load! Re: .30-30 vs 12 gauge slugs for deer On deer there is no real advantage to the shotgun except familiarity. To start, lets get a sense of each cartridges history. AmmoToGo Hot Deals. The .30-06 Springfield is a centerfire rifle cartridge Shop online for top quality .30-06 Springfield Centerfire Rifle Ammo for sale! All 20 gauge models except the Model 24C "Campers Companion" were advertised as Modified chokes, but tend to run a little tighter, somewhere between Modified and Improved Modified, with the earlier guns tending to be a little tighter than the If you buy a shotgun, Please, please, use the full length stock. ! i think there is a website called auctionzip that tells you where auctuions are and what they have to sell. The regular 12 gauge 2 3/4" "field loads" with 1 1/8 ounce of lead for bird hunting have about 23 ft lbs of recoil --- more similar to a .30-06. Because I'm the young buck of the camp (at Your parameters- under 100yards and 12 gauge with sabot slugs, game under 500 pounds but possibly dangerous- Shotgun probably. Knowing the history of the .30-06 and .308 is important because the two rounds are directly related. By the numbers, according to the Chuck Hawks recoil table, an 8-lb. Recoil of a 150-grain bullet from a 7-pound .30/06 would be about 25 f-p at 15 fps. All deer were instantly killed with the 12 pellet load on 00 buck, no deer has ever dropped in his tracks for me with the .308, but all deer shot with the 30-06 have dropped in their tracks. .308 vs .30-06: The Differences: The largest difference between .308 vs .30-06 is that the former uses a shorter case, as .308 Winchester is 2.8 inches in overall length and .30-06 is 3.34 inches in length. There are hundreds of variations of the Remington 870 in 12, 16, 20, 28 gauges and .410 bore. Also, I bought my son a Marlin XL7 .30-'06 and it is a very mild shooting gun. Cheney vs. Upland Lawyers) quail, can be fired all day without any particular problems with the recoil or noise creating serious fatigue. The shotgun also has a much greater potential for a hit on a close, fast moving target with the expanding pattern. Developed in the 1950s from the Prohibition-era .300 Savage to replace the long-serving .30-06 in U.S. military service, the 7.62x51mm cartridge went on to be adopted by NATO and just about every classic battle rifle such as the Both are deadly enough depending on the range. 2 pulls of the trigger and I just placed 18 or 24 pellets down range. 30%? 12-Gauge Slug According to Nelson, the 12-gauge slug gun is by far one of the most popular choices for bear protection in the Alaskan bush. You will have to be very very lucky to find one or $150 or less. Lets compare the 30-30 vs. 30-06 and see if either is ideal for your needs. I too, think the 12 pellet 00 load is a very powerful/deadly load. Foundry Outdoors is the modern outdoorsman's trusted store for ammo, archery, and hunting gear. While the .30-06 was meant for rifles with a long action, the .308 was meant for short action rifles. So does a 12 gauge slug gun. 20-gauge shotshellMany might consider this one borderline, but lets run some numbers based on popular target loads: 28-gauge -ounce-12.8 ft.-lbs. 0 0 HawaiianHippie Lv 4 1 decade ago A lot depends on the load, but yed, that is common. http://www.academy.com/index.php?pamedefense&start=0&selectedSKU=0350-01883-0231, http://www.academy.com/index.php?pashotguns&start=12&selectedSKU=0350-01883-5002, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116686586, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116724211, http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20805&gun=Shotgun, Wilderness Survival, Hiking and Camping Forum, Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It's a budget version of the mosseburg 500. remind me to tell you about the cop who was shot down on the Mexican border-2 rnds M-1 carbine. The 3 1/2 12 gauge shells are best suited for waterfowl hunting, particularly for geese. Was this a " magic slug "? I've killed deer with 12 guage buckshot, .308, and 30-06. Here you will find important information regarding ammunition allowed in your area such as the stipulations on using buckshot and slugs as well as the type of firearm you are permitted to use. Once I had a deer fall face down without taking a single step. As a result, the .308 case holds 56 grains of water compared to the .30-06's 68 grains. For example if using the popular 12-gauge shotgun, make sure you only buy 12 gauge ammunition. I've killed deer with 12 guage buckshot, .308, and 30-06. DetroitDoc If you must rely on a handgun for bear protection, Please resist the urge to put a pistol grip on it. The GG is a one trick pony compared to an 870 with mag slug loads and buckshot and birdshot in the Its been said that if you can only afford one gun, make it a .12 gauge shotgun. Junior Member. A 7-pound 20 gauge loaded with that -ounce slug produces 12.2 ft.-lbs. In those sizes the shells can come in light loads, standard loads or heavy (magnum) loads. But, advancements in ammo propellant allowed Winchester to develop a smaller round with similar ballistics to the .30-06.. Much better for a home defense gun is a 20 gauge. For example, the Federal Premiums 2.75-inch shells loaded with sabot slugs in 12-gauge and 20-gauge have noticeable differences in ballistics. We're hoping to ideally spend less than $150 for the weapon. (ideally under $150). Two exceptions were using a 1903 Rock Island in .30-06, my uncles guncarried in WWI. A 12 ga slug (2,935 ft/lb) is more powerful (Muzzle Energy) then a .270, (2,700 ft/lb) and just about the exact match for an average 30-06 load. Currently we're looking into a pump action 12 gauge or some type of .30-30 or 30.06 (likely bolt action unless we find a level action cheap) Just curious what other people thoughts are as to which would be more useful/better investment. For example in many states there are How did he live, if you don't mind me asking? In fact, the .308 is really just a development of the .30-06. Senior Member, Biggfoot44 Given the way things are looking in the us as of late and are likely to turn int he future, me and Rosie have decided to get a relatively cheap rifle of some sort for home defense. So what can a 12 gauge do at close range that a short barreled semi .30-06 or .308 can't do? Super Grade XTR.Like new with case and all excessories.12 gauge 3 over 30-06.Scope mounted with Burris 2x7. Through both shoulder blades and both lungs. The 12 gauge slug can bull it's way through brush a bit better but no gun is brush proof. The semi-automatic M1 Garand is probably the most famous rifle chambered in .30-06.It was deployed extensively in World War II and the Korean War. 12 gauge shells come in 3 sizes: 2 3/4th inch, 3 inch, 3 1/2 inch. BTW even though this area was "rifle legal" I was using fully rifled shotgun by choice as I had confidence in its accuracy to greater distance than any likley shots in that forrested area. The recoil is also increased for a given bullet as the speed of the bullet is increased. A good hit with any of them, especially with appropriate nonmilitary ammo will be devastating. The 30/06 does kick less if the guns are of equal weight, but a light 30/06 will kick much harder than a heavy 12 gauge will. I also like the idea of pointing and being able to place 9 or 12 pellets on a target in one trigger pull. A 20 gauge will also defend your hope and put food on the table and is much easier to handle by women and small persons. The 12 gauge is so popular because its powerful enough to hunt most species of game, but the recoil of a 12 gauge is much more manageable than the 10 gauge. I would imagine there isn't any bullet upset when a .50 fmj impacts tissue. .308 vs .30-06: The Quick Version Of This Almost-Pointless Debate Amongst Gun Nuts For decades, people have been debating .308 vs .30-06, and people are The 30-30 recoils a tad less then the 30-06. 250 rounds of trap load in one day will leave me with a small bruise the next day. Advanced Member, elalumno JavaScript is disabled. You will not use nearly as much ammo for your shotty unless your comparing it to a sniper rifle firing at a distance, which doesn't sound like your situation. Thats what it was designed to do. A 30-06 will kick like a 12 gauge Hunted deer only one time carrying a 12ga Rem 1000, but only because the club on who's land we were running dogs required it. Handgun. Shotgun vs. aiming a shotgun is always necessary if you want to hit the right thing. All Manufacturers Barnes Black Hills Browning Buffalo Bore Dynamic Research Tech Federal Fiocchi Hornady HSM Liberty Magtech Norma Nosler Oath Prvi Partizan Remington Ruag Sellier & Bellot Sierra Sig Sauer Uncategorized Winchester Wolf Evan, you can't just interject about "3 torso hits with .50 bmg" and expect us to not to ask for MORE DETAILS! +1 on the shotgun "good for defense and can put about any type of meat in this hemisphere on the table", Thanks for the advice everyone, we'll be looking into a good pump action this coming month then. GAUGE TO THICKNESS CHART Gauge Stainless Galvanized Sheet Steel Aluminum Fraction inches (mm) inches (mm) inches (mm) inches (mm) 30 0.0125 (0.33) 0.0157 (0.40) 0.0120 (0.30 The 12-gauge is simply too large for the 20-gauge to stand a chance in this area, as the 12-gauge delivers more speed and power to the target. Also, It is what I have. Ammo price is only a consideration if you treat shotgun ammo like rifle ammo. The .30-06 AP round not only penetrated the side of the block, but also penetrated the cylinder wall. For one, it is as universal of a cartridge as any. A 12-gauge slug is just shy of an inch in diameter, about three times the .308s diameter. gain, like the .22 LR, the 12 Gauge is a round that you can use for a great variety of purposes. The regular 12 gauge 2 3/4" "field loads" with 1 1/8 ounce of lead for bird hunting have about 23 ft lbs of recoil --- more similar to a .30-06. Mossberg 500 Persuader 12 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun $ 359.00 Add to cart Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam .410 All-Purpose Field Pump-Action Shotgun $ 299.00 Add to cart Mossberg Maverick 88 12 Gauge In 1969 Remington introduced 28 gauge and .410 bore models on a new scaled-down receiver size, and in 1972 a 20 gauge Lightweight ("LW") version was introduced on the same sized receiver, and all of the smaller gauges today are produced on that size receiver. I think all are extremely effective. In those sizes the shells can come in light loads, standard loads or heavy (magnum) loads. * Bigger hole. Making a big hole in something threatening to kill you is how you stop that threat. I have been shooting 12 gauge trap Later, when the military upgraded from the 1903 to the semi-automatic M1 Garand, they kept the .30-06 round. 30-06 vs. 30-30, two tried-and-true rifle cartridges are commonly found in the field. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .223 Remington vs .30-30 Winchester ammo rounds. The .30-06 Springfield is an old caliber that a lot of people tend to overlook, but it has a ton of positives. 20 gauge recoil A 20 ga shotgun has a lot less recoil than either the 30-30 or 30-06. A reasonable alternative for home defense is a 20-gauge shotgun. then bought a 18" barrel for home defense for like $80. Starting Member, Evan Marshall Given the way things are looking in the us as of late and are likely to turn int he future, me and Rosie have decided to get a relatively cheap rifle of some sort for home defense. So packed with energy is a 12-gauge I used a BRI .50 sabot in origional std velocity configuration. 25 inch barrels with c for sale by stockjocky on GunsAmerica - 945612504 Let's examine these two calibers and see the pros and cons of each as well as why you might opt for one in your arsenal over the other. It's only paranoia until the day you need to use it - then it's just "being prepared." The first is buckshot. A rifle of the same weight in .30-06 generates 20.1 ft-lbs of recoil firing a Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or jacketing type. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. No, it was shot placement. Many people described the recoil as half of that of a 12 gauge. (2,950 ft/lb) As for killing deer at 30 yards, it will ruin less meat then a high velocity rifle bullet at the same range, and leave a much larger blood trail for tracking, if necessary. And what about the dropping/stopping power of buckshot? The idea was to get .270 Winchester or .280 Remington out of a short-action rifle, instead of the standard-length actions those cartridges (based on the .30-06) required. 6. If I, as a 135-pound teenager, was capable of practicing and hunting with a .30-06without a single complaintso can you. you just got to get the stockpile of ammo for what you want to use it for. A "miss" with a rifle is going to go a tremendously long distance. Thanks for the feedback and links by everyone so far. 12-gauge shotgun 30 caliber rifle (30-30 or 308 or 30-06) 22 rimfire (be it short, long, long rifle or magnum) The 12-gauge with buck shots was hard to argue with. (I'm talking about just the pistol grip, not the pistol grips with full stock). First, I realize that there is no magic death ray (except for 3 1/2" 0000 buck rounds and .50 BMGs ;), however, please consider the following . Hmmm, I have heard reports of deer being pole axed when hit with 3" brenneke slugs. The sabot slug is still twice the weight of 30-30 bullet and more than twice diameter, velocity about 2/3s of rifle at muzzle , retain 1/2 velocity at 100 yards, energy transfer into game with minimal over penetration in soft tissue. A 12 gauge shell also has advantage over the smaller gauges because it has a shorter shot column. Only saw one that day and not in a position to get a shot off. USA 9868 Posts. The 20 gauge with #13 shot throws out 10 .30 caliber pellets versus a 12 gauge with 00 buckshot with 8 pellets of .33 caliber. Shoot your 12 gauge pump or O/U shotgun from a bench rest some day and you will see However Modern rifles in .30/06 can be had as light as 5 pounds with 7- to 8-pound models being most common. You didn't have to be precise to get some lead into the perp, that's dust-off was coming in and they threw him on it and saved his life. FMJ Ammo . 12 GAUGE Another highly versatile caliber to have in your arsenal is the 12 gauge. When loaded with buckshot, the 12 25%? Foundry Outdoors, family owned and operated since 2015, has thousands of deals on hunting gear, archery equipment, and ammunition (ammo) available. Anyone have a particular model they prefer and why? The question originally asked by User-11488268546948703253 was: How strong is the recoil on a 12 gauge pump compared to a 30-06 hunting rifle? A shotgun's recoil is more of a push, though, and a rifle gives a sharper jolt. * Slightly higher energy. SolveTech makes thickness gauging technology for measuring plastic film. Aiming, of course, remains critical as an opening pattern really needs to be aimed at a more distant target for a chance of a hit by more than one or two pellets. 50rds - 9mm Federal American Eagle 115gr. the guns have different roles and over-penetration is a real concern-nothing is 100% and you'd better shoot until they're down instead of focusing on super bullets. :thumb: If things keep going the way there are, having an anti aircraft gun mounted on your roof. Ditto for the ubiquitous .30-06 and the various .300 Magnums shooting ammunition loaded with 180-220 grain bullets. but you can do it all accept maybe kill a grizzly bear. There are so many variables that one could twist figures around and justify just I just assume use buckshot at close range/in a building. Most folks who use both weapons with any amount of frequency will tell you that a 12 Gauge shooting clays or (God forbid, these days - ref. Recoil energy of 17.81 foot-pounds at a recoil velocity of 11.54 fps was deemed manageable by the typical soldier for extended action and daily use. Gauge is (100) x (mils), so for example 0.3 mils = 30 gauge. Go with the 12 gauge. Its fun to shoot stuff. IMHO you don't need 1000 rounds of 12 gauge to do what 1000 rounds of rifle ammo will do. It truly is the best bargain a hunter will ever buy. not much else to tell-NVA got inside the wire-got control of the .50 bmg turned on the Green Beret's and my partner took 3 hits. Posted - August 18 2002 : 9:47:23 PM . The 12 gauge slug is a much bigger projectile with a lower muzzle velocity (around 1800 ft/s) but higher engergy (around 3100 ft/lbs) due to the larger mass of the projectile. Theres no denying this is significant recoil energy, but consider this: a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with a 3 1 5/8 ounce shotshell packs a 51-pound-plus whallop. Almost any other round with enought horsepower for compleate penetration would have given substantialy similar results. To go from mils to microns, you multiply mils x 25.4. According to the chart provided above a 20-gauge brake will also bend 16-gauge aluminum but not quite 15-gauge, because .054 falls between .051, which is 16-gauge aluminum, and .057, which is 15-gauge There are a few differences but mainly it's the saftey position. Of the three, I prefer the .30-.30 as it has less recoil than the 12 gauge and is more accurate than the 44 mag. A forum community dedicated to survivalists and enthusiasts. The .30-06 Springfield round began its life when it was developed as the caliber for the Springfield M1903 bolt action rifle, which was adopted into widespread serviceby the U.S Army in World War I. The .30-06 AP almost made it through the plate. I don't remember the numbers, but a 12-gauge has more kick than a .30-'06. Absolutely, patterning is critical and illuminating. It might have worked, but Winchester intended it to be in, and introduced it in, the Model 100 and the Model 88. Although "aiming" a shotgun is necessary at short ranges and always with slugs, the down range travel is relatively self-limiting compared to a rifle like the .308/30-06. 30.30 is not so great for home defense whereas the 12 you can get different chokes and anything from bird shot to slugs which makes it more versatile. i bought my mossberg 500 at wally world for like $219. A Rifle Caliber Comparison.223 vs. .270 Winchester 12 Gauge vs. 20 Gauge 12 Gauge vs. 16 Gauge. The All deer were instantly killed with the 12 pellet load on 00 buck, no deer has ever dropped in his tracks for me with the .308, but all deer shot with the 30-06 have dropped in their tracks. The 12 gauge three inch turkey loads kick a lot more than my .30-'06 does though. The 20 gauge may not be as powerful as the 12 gauge, but it will cut a bloody rathole in man or beast, and stop a deadly attack. Most people attest that .270 vs .30-06 favors the lighter round. Enter the .308. The 12-gauge shotgun has a large payload and a large kick as well. well you have shot 12 ss your fine in recoil dept ok as to 30-06 vs 7.62 both a 30 cal more or less 30-06- is more ker spooowww,,,, i woul get a 06 plenty of of the shelf ammo and a hel.. of a hunting round ok thanks eddie Why not something like .30-30? 12 gauge shells come in 3 sizes: 2 3/4th inch, 3 inch, 3 1/2 inch. Got to check pressure on the 30/06 to 308 on the Garand first make sure it is not to high. One account said that "the deer dropped like it had been hit by an artilery piece". 7.6251 vs. 7.6239.223 vs. .270 Winchester 12 Gauge vs. 16 Gauge 30-30 vs. 30-06 Search the Lodge AmmoToGo Hot Deals 50rds 9mm IMI 115gr. $41.75. When it comes to shotguns there are two main types of ammo to use for whitetail hunting. Gun Deals: LSI Citadel Boss-25 AR-12 Gauge, Semi-automatic, Shotgun $474.99 FREE S&H Most Popular Posts What Unsigning the Arms Trade Treaty Means for American Gun Owners ~ VIDEO The answer is .054. Unlike calibers, with shotgun gauge, the smaller the number the wider the barrel.
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